As I understand the end result was 4 trillion dollars in new spending due to the pork projects legislators stuck into the fiscal cliff end result. Those idiots have not figured out how to STOP spending borrowed money. They just spend, spend, spend like there is no tomorrow. Our grand children (still not born) are going to inherit this debt. Our Federal legislators and the POTUS are growing ever closer to ending that great experiment on th eother side of the pond known as "AMERICA".

Funny, I just saw my post is on the Olivette Patch, my mistake I no longer go to Olivette because the City refuses to recognize the rights granted to the citizens of Missouri under Art.1 Sec.23 of the Missouri Constitution. I used to go to Olivette frequently, but I will not go where my constitutional rights are "BANNED".

Kurt, what is your takehome 'page'? Okay, I am really tired of you Democrats whining about your payroll taxes going up. Rasmussen did a survery and apparently most taxpayers are unaware that two years ago the Democrats in one of their little buy the voter ploys decided to steal from social security to give you people a 'temporary' gift early taken from your retirement income. You people should have this taken away from your first two years of social security benefits.
This should NEVER have been allowed in the first place. Be careful what you wish for, and now it is being taken away and boo hoo hoo. This is social security retirement money that YOU PEOPLE have said you don't want Congress to mess with and would prefer that our country go over the next fiscal cliff rather than dealing with our debt problem. Have you heard our country has a debt problem Kurt? Apparently the Democrats are also unaware of that as well. Debt? What debt? Just tax the rich more and everything will be okay. Idiots!

Carol, you should run for office! Yep, the Democrats thrive on lack of responsibility and finger pointing. Everything is some one elses fault, th eworlk owes US and there is a reason they are called leftists.... The same as communists and neo.... well you know.

Is the reason we are where we are that they agreed to raise the debit 19 times when Bush and crew completely destroyed what Clinton had built up but also continue to raise and add to the perks and benefits the do not pay for they get them we pay for, they work for us yea right

Part of the problem is the ranting by each party and finger pointing at the other party. This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue, it's a national problem. Republicans like to spend too. The stimulus was first enacted by George W. Bush in the 'Economic Stimulus Act of 2008'. Also, Bush increased government spending more than any predecessor since LBJ (including) (study conducted by George Mason University).

Josh, you are right about one thing, both parties are responsible and both parties like to spend money we don't have and shame on Bush and the GOP for failing to be responsible when they were in charge. However, I think your memory is slightly selective which seems to be something most Democrats suffer from. In 2008 our country voted for hope and change but I think instead we got more of the same and worse. When President Bush took office in 2001 the U.S. Debt = $5.629 trillion. When Obama took office the debt was $10.7 trillion. The debt four years later is now $16.4 trillion. Yes, up to Bush, he was the worst spender in history. But thanks to Obama, that award now has passed to your messiah Obama. $6 trillion in four years is greater than $5 trillion in 8 years. Dear God!
And OBama has no plan to reduce the debt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/02/AR2009010202322.html?sid=ST2009010300318

.

After the single worst performance of any President in American history, Barack Obama managed to get re-elected talking about Big Bird, binders full of women and Romney's bank account. It a low point in American democracy and a sign that the Mayans may have been right about the end of the world, but were simply off a few years. If so, the world won't end with a bang, it'll end in a towering wave of stupidity, incompetence and class warfare.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/01/obama-to-bring-big-spending-plan-on-the-road-in-upcoming-fiscal-fight/

The right quickly forgets the facts that the 12 years of republican presidents preceding President Clinton tripled the debt and then the 8 years following his presidency doubled it. Doesn't sound too much to me like the progressives are responsible for that. Dubya was given a surplus and quickly decided that he should return that surplus to the rich resulting in the Bush tax cuts of 2001. The first month that they were effective borrowing was needed to cover expenses. Then the illustrious Bush, and his has been partner Chaney, decided that he wanted to expand the tax cuts and engage in a couple of wars. Who cares about budgeting and paying for the wars, getting the WMDs destroyed was more important. Even the worshipped Ronald Reagan said deficits don't matter. I'm sorry to say Mr. Perez that you are mistaken, the increase in the debt is not a result of anything that President Obama has done. If you take a few minutes and review the budgets for FY2008 and FY2011 you will note that the largest increases are for Social Security and Medicare, neither of which President Obama had anything to do with. The right loves to spend money when they are in office, witness the 2 unfunded wars and budget cuts, but quickly changes their tune when their message becomes outdated. Additionally, you can thank your parents and grandparents for the debt as they have passed more on to you than you will pass on to your children and grandchildren.

You are both right and wrong. The right has criticized Bush for his spending. Yet, we are still in Afghanistan. WHy? What has Pres. Obama done about Medicare and social security - nothing and now OBamacare. Really David? And who knew there was a budget in 2011? A budget has not been passed by the senate since April 2009 - but I am sure you knew that as well.

First off folks, they blame Bush and Cheney because they are responsible. They were given a budget surplus and through corruption and incompetence created the largest deficit only second to Saint Regan. Next, the premise that all government spending is bad is simply false. There are many functions that a federal government must provide and it costs money, aka taxes.
Conceptually, the reason why you do not want the government spending has to do with a phenomenon called “crowding out”, that implies that if the government spends in the private sector, businesses will be “crowded out” of operating due to the competition of the government and the advantage the government would seem to have in providing the goods and services.
In our current situation, the private sector had stopped spending, so there was no crowding out to be done. Econ 101 tells us that if the private sector has stopped spending then the government must, or the economy will not recover.
As for other spending, as the richest nation in the world, do we not educate our children? Do we not make sure that old folks can survive? What do we do about the poor? The sick? What about the public school systems? To have a great public school system takes money and that means taxes.

How about the nonsense about regulations? There was a time in our history where there were no regulations. What happened? Corporations, unfettered by regulations polluted the air, poisoned the water, and put 8 and 9 year old children to work, all under the flag of capitalism, and maximizing profits. Regulations are necessary because companies will not do the right thing without regulations, they will take any means to create a competitive advantage they can. I am not saying that is bad or wrong, I am saying that is why the “regulation” argument is nonsense.
As a CPA, Who has done hundreds of business plans for folks looking to go into business, I can tell you exactly zero (0) did not go into business because of regulations; but 100% who failed to start did so because their banks would not lend them money. It is the banks, not regulations that get in the way of entrepreneurs.
Lastly, there is a difference between the two parties, they are not the same. Not every politician is corrupt and lies to their constituencies. There is a concerted effort by one party to divide the country and get the grass roots folks talking like you are talking. You would not tolerate your children lying to you, so why do you accept it from the conservatives and Fox news?

We are on our way out of Afghanistan Carol and will be gone in 24 months. What would you like for President Obama to do about Medicare and Social Security? Should he reduce the amount that you collect every month and add large deductibles to the health care that you take advantage of? These programs were developed decades ago and never saw any adjustments by the right during their years in power while the stock market was driving higher and higher, inflation was increasing and returns on investments were providing sizable amounts of returns. Perhaps eliminating the cap on social security contributions and means testing would help but I doubt that is anything you would ever accept. As for the Affordable Care Act, how many medical professionals do you know that are not in the 1%? What other profession, other than weather forecasting, can get away with guessing what a problem may be based on clues, treat the alleged problem and then repeating the process when the initial diagnosis proves incorrect? Do you know any CPA's who can do that and still maintain their licenses to practice? What about an auto mechanic? Would you be satisfied if the mechanic put a fuel pump on your car, charged you $500 for it and then told you he was mistaken and that the problem was really a faulty computer chip. Obviously, a senate budget is not an absolute requirement in order for the government to function. I would not go as far as to portray the bill put forth by Paul Ryan as a viable budget.

J- spoken like a true lib - you didn't miss a single talking point - congrats - what Koolaid flavor do you prefer? Ha! Even FOX news got a mention. WHat, NO MSNBC that simply filters out all the negative news that you libs shouldn't hear? WHen was the last time you actually watched FOX NEws. Good news, Al Jazerra is coming your way thanks to Al Gore the capitalist who sold out to one of the highest oil producers in the world. But, oh yeah, it's all George Bush's fault. WHen did one Republican say that we should not have roads and schools. Show me where and I will show you were the OBama adm wasted money on Solyndra phony green scams. COme on, let's go one on one with this.

Well Carol they said it loud and clear when President Obama presented his jobs act last fall and house failed to even bring it up for a vote. That act included funding for infrastructure which as I recall includes roads and schools. Chris Christie whom I consider a reasonable republican dropped plans to add another bridge from NJ to NYC. Flyoverland, do the research. You're a self proclaimed executive who certainly has the wherewithal to research the budgets from 2008 and 2011. Take a look and tell me exactly which line items increased as a result of President Obama's policies. I happen to also be a CPA and will accept part of the blame as a profession for allowing the reduction of reserves for unfunded liabilities, hence a whopping $ trillion dollar deficit in pension liabilities. Incidentally, pensions were once a key employee benefit which provided competition between employers. What happened? Saint Reagan came along and decided that big business did not need this expense and instead started putting the responsibility on the shoulders of the employees, something unheard of before his time. Yes, employees are responsible for their future but promises made in recruiting employees must be supported. Carol, take a few minutes of your time and watch Al Jazeera, or listen to BBC on the radio at night. You'll quickly discover what the rest of the world thinks of this great country and the BS republicans are bringing. You really believe that holding the debt hostage is productive?

Carol, what about social security and medicare? What should the President do? What about the 1% loaded with medical professionals who get paid whether their solution is right or wrong? Flyoverland, unproductive regulations would have averted the economic collapse of 2008/2009. Unproductive regulations such as Glass Steagall would have done wonders.

Perhaps that's part of the problem flyover (by the way, why the anonymity?). Corporate focus on shareholders and profits is the problem. Who gets hit first? Labor. Are budgets and forecasts truly reflective of what will happen in a future year? Not during most of my days in corporate America. Budgets and forecasts are created to please the BOD, and hence the shareholders, and only one company in my entire career in finance truly dug down to the bottom to create an accurate "forecast". Most are top down and profits are forced more often than not by decreasing labor costs. Corporations are hoarding billions of dollars and at the same time asking labor to forgo pay increases and accept more and more furlough days. How many organizations now consider the days between Christmas and New Years to be unpaid holidays? I know of a few and that's wrong. Executive "leaders" ( and I use that term lightly) insure that their bonus plans are structured to succeed. Non-executive bonus plans become a victim. Please do tell what regulations who consider 'unnecessary". Frankly, I could care less what forms you sign, you still put yourself out as someone who believes capitalism is the only answer. Let me ask you this, during your tenure of signing those important forms, how many of your employees in the trenches truly felt that they were valued and being treated fairly? That their salaries would rise like yours and that they would reap any of the benefits that you did because of their hard work.

My point at the end of the day is that we have one party who is tring to split everyday Americans up so we cannot have the necessary discussions to move forward. I can feel for flyoverland...the koolaid is the whole "Shareholder Value" lie Peter Druker esopused and all the plutocrats quickly promulgated. Companies need to go back to taking care of their customers, then their employees. If they do that they will build great companies and shareholders will get fair returns. Boards are supposed to be advisory, not operational.

Flyover, I commend you for your success. Unfortunately, your's is an often forgotten process today when shareholders are the only focus. JSH, I totally agree with you on the customer focus. Anyone can sell anything to anyone once, the objective is repeat customers and today that is often difficult for many organizations. Many employees, and often time customers, are ignored in today's economy. Reduce the employees ability to exist and consume and you exponentially reduce the success of business. If the employee can't even afford to consume that which they are producing something is wrong. Henry Ford once said that he would pay his employees sufficiently to purchase the vehicles they produce. Not so today. WalMart is a perfect example. Average pay of $9 per hour, less than a 40 hour work week to allow reduced benefits and you have many of their employees at poverty level. That can't be good for the economy and society in general. Couple that with the tax subsidies demanded for each and every new WalMart store built and it's no wonder the Walton's and their heirs are the wealthiest in the world. I will never step foot in a WalMart or Sam's, I cannot support their greed. One of the problems is that conservatives always want to get their hand on the money, take their disproportionate share and give pittance to the ones in the trenches. Good for you that you were not one of them flyover.

This is a sad time and as we make history for Amaricas poor credit ratings, health care issues, unemploment...... this is something that the innocent children not yet born yet will have to deal with. This poor excuse of a president is re-elected? All the demoocrats pass the buck and think Obama can walk on water. What fools. Look for things to continue down hill as I see no end in sight. On a brighter note.... In 3 years and 10 months we elect a new leader and it can only improve.

Hey David, in the first 45 months that Obama was in office he created 750,000 private sector jobs. Guess how many Bush created in 45 months. Negative 1,168,000 jobs. That looks like uphill to me. Also fyi, based on the last presidential race Republicans aren't going to win any presidential races by just appealing to old white people, they are becoming the minority.

I question the 750,000 jobs created. As for the Republicans, you are on the mark...looks like "The Law of Diminishing Returns" if they don't wake up. It is absolutely nausiating to see a group such as the Liberals so effective in strategy and execution to get someone elected yet can't run a country and the Republicans are just the opposite to a relative degree. They have their heads up their butts. Even what they have said so far to address their problem is so far from being right it's scary. They just don't understand their problem.

I lost $20 out of my paycheck and my husband lost the same - Obama stole it. Obama, his minion Dems. and the neutered Republicans (like Mr. Blount) have decided that we are their constant piggy bank for their friends which include, the big companies that get in bed with them, the millions collecting welfare, food stamps, unemployment, social security, disability, illegal aliens, Federal housing recipients, free phones recipients, green companies and unions - in other words, the 47% that Romney spoke of. I am thinking seriously of quitting my job and going on welfare, I would make more money and I wouldn't have to pay taxes. My job would be to convince everyone else that is working to quit as well and where would this 47% be if another 30% quit their jobs? I know where they'd be - starving and on the streets.

Keep in mind that a huge portion of that "47%" includes military folks, since they are entirely dependent on 'the gubment' you so despise. Also, there are many things the government provides with your tax dollars that you surely benefit from every day. Like highways, an educated workforce, national power grid, disaster relief - I'm looking at you, Sandy victims. I say that last one as a New Orleans native.

As for the education system, I'm not saying it is perfect or without significant issues. I am saying it is better than *nothing* and I see no first-world countries with a completely private educational system., where access to education is solely determined by inherited wealth and class systems based on finances.

I am continually amazed at how "certain" some people are about who to blame for today's fiscal and societal problems.

Perhaps our problems are just a little more complicated than we want to think and that the best path out is to stop calling each other names and to work together?

Naive thinking perhaps, but maybe we could tone down our certainty just a tad and focus on solving the problems instead of pointing fingers.

"If I am fool, it is, at least, a doubting one; and I envy no one the certainty of his self-approved wisdom. "
George Byron