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Banning Big Sodas: Too Much Government?

New York City is considering a measure to ban the sale of giant sugary sodas at movie theaters and other public venues. Good for health? Bad for government?

With Missouri ranked as the 11th most obese state in the nation in a study published about a year ago, we thought it would be worth a discussion about a ban on giant sugary soda sales in New York City.

If New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has his way, that's what's coming next to your favorite five-borough restaurant, movie theater or street vendor.

The mayor plans to eliminate the sale of sugary drinks larger than 16 fluid ounces in each of those places in an "ambitious" effort to combat obesity, The New York Times reported last week.

“New York City is not about wringing your hands; it’s about doing something,” Bloomberg told the paper. 

Exemptions, such as for diet drinks and sales in supermarkets, are expected to be part of the new law, eyed for spring 2013, according to the Times.

It would mark the first such ban in the country, but follows the mayor's successful efforts to ban trans fats and curb public smoking.

The New York City Beverage Association is certainly not thrilled.

Does Missouri need to consider something similar to combat the rotund waistlines? Is this nanny-state-gone-mad or nice job Bloomie?

Tom Cooper June 4, 2012 at 04:24 pm
For the people who want to impute the evils of big government in restrictions like this, I suggest they trace the government evil to its actual source.Maybe if the United States didn't have such huge agricultural subsidies for the corn producing industry, which feeds the high fructose corn syrup industry, these kinds of sodas could not be produced so profitably. Much of the obesity epidemic is directly traceable to government artificially propping up what is a largely an unprofitable enterprise--growing corn.
Edward Tate June 4, 2012 at 04:35 pm
How in the world did the desire for such huge quantities of soda happen? Is marketing so effective that it so easily induces the masses to overindulge? Consuming one 64 oz portion of soda a day equals 325 pounds of sugar intake in one year. What happened to moderation?
When I was younger, an occasional soda was considered a treat. At that time, most sodas were bottled in 6 or 6 1/2 oz portions. After drinking our 6 oz treat, we would have never considered following it up with 9 or 10 more! I would hope that if the medical and dental problems associated with excessive sugar intake could be imbedded in our youth at an early age, we could begin to see a more healthy society.
Jean Whitney June 4, 2012 at 05:58 pm
Mr. Tate—I would SPLIT a bottle of soda with my father (at home) as a kid, when 16-oz bottles came out, since a whole bottle seemed like a lot for either of us! So I guess it is marketing.
CSloan June 4, 2012 at 06:20 pm
Exactly. Your "God given right" to kill yourself ends when it affects others. Joe Blow's "right" to be fat means we all pay higher insurance premiums, wait longer to see doctors, and cover for Joe at work when he's out with his obesity-related illness du jour.
Like Mr. Tate says below, I have a tough time understanding why anyone would want to drink a HALF GALLON of anything. Somehow we've come to a place where that seems reasonable, so soda is probably just a small part of the American weight problem. I think the Mayor recognizes this and is using the issue to start a conversation. If this kind of legislation seems ridiculous, so does drinking from a "cup" you could also bathe in in a pinch.
Sara S. June 4, 2012 at 07:25 pm
I agree that Bloomberg is off base with this initiative, but YOU are an idiot if you're actually suggesting we return to a ban on alcohol. Everyone knows Prohibition was a complete failure..
Sara S. June 4, 2012 at 08:02 pm
It's not just the sugar that makes orange juice bad for you...The food companies add all kinds of flavoring and preservatives to it. Each brand has a specific flavor that has been researched for consumer preference.
Sara S. June 4, 2012 at 08:21 pm
I am surprised you are the only one to have mentioned corn subsidies in this discussion. I couldn't agree more!
Tom Cooper June 4, 2012 at 11:21 pm
Sara--Most people don't know. And the government likes it that way. They can keep their corn belt constituents happy with massive infusions of taxpayer money, and our children pay the price in rapidly declining health.
Elizabeth O'Fallon June 4, 2012 at 11:38 pm
Should people eat/drink healthy? Absolutely. Should the government force them to do so? Absolutely not. As a mom, I take responsibility for myself and for my family and for what we eat. I am also the person who makes sure we get enough exercise by encouraging my kids to go for a bike ride a family walk, etc. As a family we believe in eating all foods in moderation. Is eating chocolate cake or drinking soda every day good for you? No. Is enjoying it occasionally detrimental to your health? No. Obviously the healthier you eat the healthier you will be, but what ever happened to that old fashioned idea of personal responsibility?
Andy Gross June 5, 2012 at 12:14 am
I understand that we as a society pay more in health insurance for those who choose to eat poorly and not take responsibility for their health. However, I cannot get past the idea that government is overstepping its bounds.
Sensible? I think so June 5, 2012 at 02:23 am
Good question. My guess is that it isn't so much marketing as it is the Typical American Desire for Bigger and Cheaper, regardless of consequences. That's encouraged by marketing but I think there's more to it. The agricultural subsidies mentioned by Tom are a huge force. And so is the resistance to revisit such decisions, including the lobbies that make the decisions effectively permanent. And so is the unbridled profit motive when prices don't reflect true costs. That gets to what I suspect might be the real goal here: a sugar tax.
David Altman June 5, 2012 at 05:30 am
How is this any different than seatbelt and helmut laws or are those against soda ban also against these safety laws?
Sara S. June 5, 2012 at 02:25 pm
This is similar to seatbelt and helmet laws...but just because those laws make sense, doesn't meant I haven't personally questioned whether they should exist. Helmet laws do not even exist everywhere (Chicago comes to mind).
Kevin Lane June 7, 2012 at 04:11 am
Yep, disagree with all of 'em. The government isn't & was never intended to be responsible for my decisions. Or yours. If I don't wear a seatbelt, they don't fly through the window, I do. If somone wants to drink enough soda to get fat, fine, let them pay for their own health issues. Can't afford health insurance? Drink fewer sodas, that should help you save up. Forward is accountability, responsibility & evolution. Why the constant push for us all to just devolve into dependence?
Our government can't even get itself in line. Why do we always think they are the handyman when they break everything they touch? Housing, Banking, Education... Paradigm shift, what happens if you don't wear your seatbelt? You pay the government. What about a helmet? Same thing. Same for nearly every one of these kinds of laws. Is paying a fine really more of a deterrent than what could happen if you don't wear a seatbelt or helmet? No but they get money. What about these? Could they make car makers build cars that won't go into gear until the belts are fastened? Or cars that won't start when they sense alcohol? Or a cellphone (which all have GPS) that won't allow texting if it's moving faster than 5 MPH? Of course they could. Would it save more lives than fines, or DWI Checkpoints? By light-years! Then why don't they do that? There are tons of simple alternatives. It's seems clear that no matter how much they tell us otherwise, saving lives is a DISTANT 2nd to finding a new source of revenue.
David Altman June 7, 2012 at 04:32 am
Concerning the proposed idea that fat people pay more for health care ... Found this in the NY Times:
The question of personal responsibility, ends up being more complicated than it may seem. Parents are working longer, and takeout meals have become a default dinner. Gym classes have been cut. The real price of soda has fallen 33 percent over the last three decades. The real price of fruit and vegetables has risen more than 40 percent. The solutions to these problems are beyond the control of any individual. They involve a different sort of responsibility: civic — even political — responsibility. They depend on the kind of collective action that helped cut smoking rates nearly in half. Anyone who smoked in an elementary-school hallway today would be thrown out of the building. But [until recently with new regulations] if you served an obesity-inducing, federally financed meal to a kindergartner, you would fit right in. [Taxing fat people idea] may have its problems. The obvious one is its severity. The more important one is probably its narrowness: not even one of the nation’s most prestigious hospitals can do much to reduce obesity. The government, however, can. And that is the great virtue of [the] idea. Acknowledging that any effort to attack obesity will inevitably involve making value judgments and even limiting people’s choices. Most of the time, the government has no business doing such things. But there is really no other way to cure an epidemic.
Kevin Lane June 7, 2012 at 06:22 am
Yes there is, there are a THOUSAND different ways. What are the reasons for the 33 & 40%? Start there. Start with aspertame, a fat-hoarding poison that can be found EVERYWHERE they try to limit sugar. There are tons of options that would work better than getting the government involved, which is always "more complicated than it seems".
My suggestion was not that fat people pay more, my suggestion was that everyone pay for his OWN healthcare, it's the only way to promote responsibility, accountability, and incentive. You & I paying for it provides NONE of that.
ward y June 10, 2012 at 02:27 am
kevin lane,great answer!
Rahib August 24, 2012 at 04:23 pm
I wonder how many people that are in favor of smoking bans are against a soda ban. As a smoker, I knew this sort of thing would eventually come up and I tell the anti-smokers that gov't will go after something they like . . . then they'll know how much freedom the really have.
Rahib August 24, 2012 at 04:27 pm
If Ayn Rand is against gov't forcing us to do something why are Rand followers so Pro-Life and not Pro-Choice?
Because they are all about freedom as long as it's in line with their concept of freedom.
Howard Roark August 24, 2012 at 04:36 pm
There's a distinction to be made between a person sitting in proximity to someone smoking a cigarette, and to someone drinking a Big Gulp. To find equivalency between the two means you're either stupid or being obtuse.
I'm all for you smoking as much as you want, just don't do it near me and don't expect me to pick up your medical tab.
Elizabeth August 24, 2012 at 06:14 pm
What if, instead of government dictates on what you CAN'T do, we tried positive reinforcement, like you get big discounts for staying fit. Lower sales tax on raw fruits and veggies? When you make something be considered "off limits" it just makes people rebel and do the very thing you don't want them to do. Make the emphasis be on the good instead of the bad.
Elizabeth August 24, 2012 at 06:35 pm
That's the rub isn't it Roark? We are all paying for each others health costs and it opened Pandora's box. Now we have our noses in each others business. No smoking, no sugared drinks, you've had too much salt, no baby formula for you. etc., etc. We've given up so many simple freedoms for a false sense of security. Although, I'm not exactly sure what security people think we've gained. I'm mean, am I going to have a happier, longer life if my neighbor isn't allowed to get big gulps? If I want to eat an oreo, is that really going to hurt the mailman? It wouldn't matter if the whole nation became vegetarians and exercised 2 hours a day religiously. Even if the whole world maintained a perfect BMI it isn't going to to change the fact that the number one cause of death is being born.
PaulRevere August 24, 2012 at 06:39 pm
People!
It's the "SIZE" of Government that All Americans must get rid of. Not the size of soda. There is a difference in Banning the Size of a product vs. Banning The Product. Gee! I wonder if a man/woman sexual relations could be next in Limiting the SIZE OF P_ _ _ _.
RDBet August 24, 2012 at 06:43 pm
Yeah, opinion is virtually unanimous. Regulating soda size is a ridiculous idea
(see, we can agree on something :). There are so many poor diet and snack choices -and big sodas are just one of them. It's impossible and counterproductive to regulate. Perhaps the extent of what the government can or should do is try to get some or better labeling on those big cups. It costs very little do that calories, sugar, and % of daily intake for that serving size. Granted, labels will have limited affect and may just drive people to drink giant diet sodas -which isn't exactly healthy either (some study shows diet soda drinkers have more obesity problems than regular soda drinkers.) -perhaps some diet soda warnings. I don't know...it all may be a wasted effort.
PaulRevere August 24, 2012 at 06:45 pm
Elizabeth:
ooh! You used that phrase "Government Dictates". That is not what any country needs. The people should "dictate" on everything ----not the Government. All of our laws come "From the People". The congress (Government) or State only approves what the people want.
RDBet August 24, 2012 at 06:48 pm
You're a riot.
PaulRevere August 24, 2012 at 06:49 pm
Rahib:
This is NOT a Soda Ban. It is a Size Ban. There is a big difference. No one has Banned smoking. It's where you can smoke.
Howard Roark August 24, 2012 at 07:14 pm
"We are all paying for each others health costs and it opened Pandora's box"
You can also argue that restricting smoking is a Pandora's box as Rahib seems to suggest. Why ban pot and not alcohol? Science? No... Look, this can be argued until we're blue in the face but the reality is that Bloomberg's ban on selling Big Gulps in certain establishments for certain types of drinks in New York City will have no impact in St. Louis, nor will it likely last in NYC. It's a cannard that incites page hits.
Devon Seddon August 24, 2012 at 08:06 pm
"Small Governmental Nudge"?
Maybe you need the government to coddle you & make all your decisions for you, the rest of us have a brain. It's funny how ALL WEEK, we were talking about "my body, my right". Where did that go?
Elizabeth August 24, 2012 at 09:17 pm
Roark - "will have no impact in St. Louis"
I disagree Roark, I'm not sure if you noticed but many of the new laws we have in the area are a direct result of "X put a regulation in place, maybe we should too". Case in point the prescription requirement on the OTC drugs. One of the arguments was that other counties had already done it. The smoking ban...the same thing. There seems to be a standard for passing laws called "everyone else is doing it" If you want a big scale example, the ACA was repeatedly sold on the concept that other nations have a national healthcare plan. Granted what was ultimately passed is different, but you get the idea.

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